April 17, 2013

FINEST HOUR 152, AUTUMN 2011

==================

ABSTRACT
The fortunes of war had improved considerably: North Africa was redeemed, Italy on the verge of surrender, the Wehrmacht in Russia clearly on the retreat. Churchill allowed himself more expansive answers, particularly on Italy and the bombing campaign against Germany.

==================

2024 International Churchill Conference

Join us for the 41st International Churchill Conference. London | October 2024
More

THE PRESIDENT: We are awfully glad to have Mr. Churchill back here. I don’t have to tell him that. All he has to do is to read the papers, and look into the faces of any American. He is very welcome. I don’t think we have very much to tell you, except that we are making exceedingly good progress, and considering the size of our problems—the global nature of the war—these discussions have been done in practically record time. And so I am going to turn the meeting over to Mr. Churchill, and I think that he will be willing to answer almost—with stress on the almost—any question. (Laughter)

• Mr. Prime Minister, in Australia there is a very great fear as to the Japanese threat in that area. What is your feeling about the matter?

THE PRIME MINISTER: The threat is certainly, in our opinion, less serious than it was when I saw you last in this room December 23rd, 1941.

• Mr. Prime Minister, what can you tell us about the plans for the future, probably beginning with Europe?

THE PRIME MINISTER: A very expansive topic (laughter), and one which leads very early to difficult country; but our plans for the future are to wage this war until unconditional surrender is procured from all those who have molested us, and this applies equally to Asia and to Europe. It used to apply, until quite recently, to Africa.

• Mr. Prime Minister, could you say anything about how well satisfied you are with the way things are going on the fighting fronts?

THE PRIME MINISTER: I am very much more satisfied than I was when I was here last. (Laughter) It was here that the President handed me the telegram of the surrender of Tobruk. And as I have mentioned to him, I don’t think there was any Englishman in the United States so unhappy, as I was that day, since Burgoyne surrendered at Saratoga. (Laughter) But the situation is very different now…..a perfectly indisputable turning of the tide.

• Mr. Prime Minister, on this question of Russia….In your opinion of Russia’s self-interest, would it lead her to fight Japan after the European war?

THE PRIME MINISTER: Oh well, it’s one of those oversights that I haven’t been placed in the position to give directions to Russia. (Laughter) And I have this feeling, that those people have been doing such a tremendous job facing this enormous mass—they have done what nobody else was in a position to do: torn a large part of the guts out of the German Army. And they have suffered very grievous losses….I certainly have not felt that I ought to suggest to my Government asking more of them. But their strength may grow as time goes on. They must know that Japan has watched them with a purely opportunist eye. But it isn’t for me to make any suggestions to them at all. They have been grand Allies; and of course they have shown it in heroic fashion.

• Mr. Prime Minister, what do you think of the dissolution of the Comintern?

THE PRIME MINISTER: Well, I like it. (Laughter) I like it.

• Sir, are you confident that the Russians will be able to hold out this year, as they have in past years?

THE PRIME MINISTER: I certainly think that they have a much better prospect of holding out this year than they had the previous time. Indeed, I must express my full confidence that they will hurl back any attack which is made upon them.

• Mr. Prime Minister, in the light of developments since your speech to Congress, would you care to make any statement concerning the experiment of bombing Germany into submission?

THE PRIME MINISTER: I haven’t had very much time to go on with the experiment since I spoke to Congress. (Laughter) We have had the heaviest raid we have ever had, the raid on Dortmund, where 2000 tons were cast down upon them with, I believe, highly satisfactory results. And also, it has been an extremely good week for the U.S. Air Forces in the UK. They made, I think, four heavy daylight attacks, which are judged to be extremely successful. Precision bombing in the daylight, of course, in proportion to the weight of bombs dropped, produces a more decisive effect—more than the night bombing, because it goes to more specific targets precise and accurate.

THE PRESIDENT: I think that’s something that hasn’t been brought out: night bombing over Europe carries more weight of explosives; but of course being night-time the precision of the actual bombing can’t be so great as the day bombing, which carries less explosives but with more precision because it’s daylight. On the whole, the combination of the two, day and night, is achieving a more satisfactory result.

THE PRIME MINISTER: It’s like running a 24-hour service. (Laughter)

• Mr. Prime Minister, the last time you spoke to us you used a term that I have remembered, because you said that you were not going to rely on an internal collapse of Germany, rather would you rely on an external knock-out, at that time. Well, since then you have worked on Germany and the occupied countries a good deal, and there are constantly recurring evidences that the German people may be getting close to “had enough.” We still are working for this knock-out, but have you any further light on the internal collapse?

THE PRIME MINISTER: I stand pat on the knock-out. (Laughter) But, of course, any windfall will be gratefully accepted. (Laughter)

• Mr. Prime Minister, some quarters interpret your remarks to Congress on bombing to mean that other methods, which you said should not be excluded, should be postponed until the termination of the experiment

THE PRIME MINISTER: Oh, no. That would be a most distorted deduction to draw. I said there is no reason why the experiment should not be continued, provided other methods are not excluded—I mean other simultaneous methods, or current methods….

• Mr. Prime Minister, whenever you and the President confer, the rumor always goes around that you are about to pick an Allied commander in the European theater. Could you tell us whether you have done that?

THE PRIME MINISTER: Well, we have an Allied commander in the theater that is at present in force in Northwest Africa.

• I was thinking of the next one, sir. (Laughter)

THE PRIME MINISTER: No step of that kind has been taken at the present moment, because of the great preparations that are going forward, and we haven’t got to the point where the executive commander has to be chosen.

• Mr. Prime Minister, I am curious to know what you think is going on in Hitler’s mind now? (Laughter)

THE PRIME MINISTER: I have very little doubt that if he could have the past back he would probably play his hand a little differently. I think he would have hesitated long, before he rejected all the repeated peace efforts that were made by Great Britain, which even brought the name of our Government into disrepute, so far did we go on the path of trying to placate and appease. But he then got out of the period where he was restoring his country to its place among the countries of Europe. He had achieved that, but that wasn’t what he was after at all. Appetite unbridled, ambition unmeasured—all the world! There was no end to the appetite of this wicked man. I should say he repents now that he did not curb his passion before he brought such a great portion of the world against him and his country.

• Mr. Prime Minister, do you think it’s a sound assumption that he still has a mind? (Laughter)

THE PRIME MINISTER: I have no reason to suppose that he isn’t in control of his faculties, and of the resources of his country. But, of course, I haven’t the same facilities of acquainting myself with what is going on there, as I fortunately have on what is going on in the United States. (Laughter)

• Mr. Prime Minister, do you care to say anything about Mussolini, and Italy?

THE PRIME MINISTER: You know as much as I do about that. I think they are a softer proposition than Germany but I wouldn’t count on anything but the force of arms. It may be aided at any time by a change of heart on the part of the enemy’s countries, a weakening of morale. Nobody proposes to take the native soil of Italy away from the Italian people. They will have their life. They will have their life in the new Europe. They have sinned—erred—by allowing themselves to be led by the nose by a very elaborate tyranny which was imposed upon them so that it gripped every part of their life. The one-party totalitarian system, plus the secret police applied over a number of years is capable of completely obliterating the sense of personal liberty. And thus they were led by intriguing leaders, who thought they had got the chance of 5000 years in aggrandizing themselves by the misfortunes of their neighbors who had not offended them in any way, into this terrible plight in which they find themselves. I think they would be very well advised to dismiss those leaders, and throw themselves upon the justice of those they have so grievously offended. We should not stain our names before posterity by cruel and inhuman acts. We have our own reputation to consider. But after all it really is a matter for them to settle among them- selves, and settle with their leaders. All we can do is to apply those physical stimuli (laughter) which in default of moral sanctions are sometimes capable of inducing a better state of mind in recalcitrant individuals and recalcitrant Nations. (Laughter)

• Mr. Prime Minister, would you care to comment about the situation in India, or China?

THE PRIME MINISTER: I am very anxious to increase the intensity of the war effort against Japan, and therefore brought these commanders in chief in order that they could meet with the United States officers, and particularly with those who have been serving with such effect in China, like General Chennault and General Stilwell, and the high officers here, because it is evident that the war in that theater must be prosecuted with the very greatest vigor, and on the best lines. And we have been talking a great deal about that, and thinking a great deal, and have arrived at conclusions which I believe are sound, are good. When I saw you last, this question of priority—which was first and which was second of the two great theaters and antagonists—assumed a much more sharp form than at the present time. Our resources have greatly expanded. If the war continues on both fronts the war will be waged with equal force as our resources grow. Instead of being consecutive our efforts will be concurrent, and that great degree of effort will be capable of being applied at the same time in both directions. They have been already applied.

The forces that we have are becoming very respectable in munitions, and in men trained to war of all kinds; but as I pointed out to Congress, the problem is one of application, and that problem of application is limited by distance, and the U-boat war, the amount of shipping, the character of the communications, the vast distances of the ocean. Our forces are growing and gathering their ambition, but to apply it is a matter of time, and it is exceedingly difficult to apply.

But we follow out this principle, that all soldiers must be engaged, and ships and airplanes must be engaged on the widest possible fronts, the broadest possible superficies, and maintain the fighting with the utmost intensity, because we are the stronger animal; we are the stronger combination; we are shaking the life out of the enemy; and as we are able to continue, we will not give him a moment’s surcease.

This is particularly true of the air, where they are already beginning to fail to keep up to the necessary strength on the various fronts. Neither Japan nor Germany is able to maintain equality with Britain, the United States, and Russia on all fronts. Still less are they able to do so in the field of production. Immense plurality—the superiority of production— is on our side. And although it takes a certain number of months after planes are made before they come into action —perhaps a good many months, having regard to all the distances to be covered, and to the large ground staffs that have to be transported—but in spite of that, at the end of certain periods, the great superiority in numbers of our manufacture and of our training is bound to have effect, which so far as the air war is concerned will be decisive.

Whether the deciding of the air war will entail a similar ending of the other forms of warfare has yet to be seen. But the air was the weapon with which these people chose to subjugate the world. This was the weapon they struck at Pearl Harbor with. This was the weapon with which the Germans boasted they would terrorize all the countries of the world. And it is an example of poetic justice that this should be the weapon in which they should find themselves most outmatched and first outmatched in the ensuing struggle.

• Mr. Prime Minister, have you any- thing to say about the submarine side of the situation?

THE PRIME MINISTER: I am very much encouraged by all that has happened there since the turn of the year. Really, it has been very encouraging. The output from the United States’ shipyards is prodigious and has fulfilled all hopes, hopes which, when the plans were first made and published, seemed to be excessive. But they have been made good. The movement of supplies across the ocean has been on an increasing scale. The surplus of new building over sinkings over the last six months has been substantial, especially in the later months; and the killings of U-boats have improved and reached a very high pitch—never better than in the last month. That is due, of course, to the decreasing numbers of U-boats, but it is also due to the improved methods, and some wonderful things that have been thought of on both sides of the Atlantic. And, of course, we inter- change everything immediately. Anything we have we share and bring into action. A lot of clever people are thinking a lot about these things.

• Mr. Prime Minister, there is a great deal more confidence in the Allied commanders in the field than there was a year ago. Would you care to comment?

THE PRIME MINISTER: Well, they have had a chance to come into action on reasonable terms—indeed, on advantageous terms, because we struck with superior forces at the right spot. We — as your Confederate general [Nathan Bedford Forrest, a Cavalry commander in the Civil War] used to say, “We got there fustest with the mostest.” (Laughter) And also, because our troops have—since I was here last—been equipped with all the best weapons. You have only got to turn the industry of the United States and Britain over from peace to war. It takes a couple of years or more to get it running, but when it does run it gives you a flow of weapons with which certainly neither Germany nor Japan possibly can beat us.

• Mr. Prime Minister, would you under- take to make a prediction on the progress of the war for the rest of this year? I have in mind this statement you and the President made at Casablanca, on new and heavier blows against all of the Axis members in 1943?

THE PRIME MINISTER: I think that seems to be a very sound prediction, and couched in terms which are unexceptionable from the point of view of military security. (Laughter)

A tribute, join us

#thinkchurchill

Subscribe

WANT MORE?

Get the Churchill Bulletin delivered to your inbox once a month.